out now?


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s4tch

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2015
28,135
Have you lost patience with Allegri?

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ages ago, it's just not black or white for me, so my opinion rarely resonates with the "kill the fraud" hordes

first of all i don't mind defensive football, i grew up watching it, so i can see the beauty of it. i can celebrate a well timed tackle just like a banger from outside the box, as both can bring 3 points. and i'm not a fan of this ball hogging naive hipster attacking bullshit. i also want de zerbi, just for different reasons. i want him out of curiosity, but mostly for the lolz. i'm convinced that we'd be off the podium with him with the same squad and with his naive xg driven eye pleasing football. we'd lose most open games with our slow defenders and high line, we'd be fucked on the counter just like we were with pirlo, but at least mikem would be happy with plenty of overlaps, no two blocks of 4, wingers playing wingers and stuff lol

allegri's reactive football can work. also this season i doubt that many coaches could collect more points with this very squad. i just can't stand the small team mentality and i believe that allegri could make this team collect even more points, but he won't. i love a cynical hard fought troll win with one shot on target, i can't stand when we play for a draw and get fucked without a b-plan. and i could go on
 

campionesidd

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2013
15,243
ages ago, it's just not black or white for me, so my opinion rarely resonates with the "kill the fraud" hordes

first of all i don't mind defensive football, i grew up watching it, so i can see the beauty of it. i can celebrate a well timed tackle just like a banger from outside the box, as both can bring 3 points. and i'm not a fan of this ball hogging naive hipster attacking bullshit. i also want de zerbi, just for different reasons. i want him out of curiosity, but mostly for the lolz. i'm convinced that we'd be off the podium with him with the same squad and with his naive xg driven eye pleasing football. we'd lose most open games with our slow defenders and high line, we'd be fucked on the counter just like we were with pirlo, but at least mikem would be happy with plenty of overlaps, no two blocks of 4, wingers playing wingers and stuff lol

allegri's reactive football can work. also this season i doubt that many coaches could collect more points with this very squad. i just can't stand the small team mentality and i believe that allegri could make this team collect even more points, but he won't. i love a cynical hard fought troll win with one shot on target, i can't stand when we play for a draw and get fucked without a b-plan. and i could go on
Nicely put.
 

Mokku

Senior Member
Apr 17, 2019
2,394
Further to what @s4tch said, old Allegri made a very versatile team that didn't need to play at 100% to win in Italy, but at the same time could switch it up and go toe-to-toe with the best teams in Europe like Barcelona, Madrid, and Bayern. I remember going to Madrid where we came back from the first leg loss to lose to a dodgy penalty. We would morph into different formations to close games out and we played some great games the last time out.

This version of Allegri is something different. He has a defeatist attitude, he's frightened to experiment, he has no faith in the attackers, and despite being a monumentally successful manager, couldn't muster up anything against our biggest rivals in one of those games that could've swung the title in our favour. Its not like he's new to any of it, he's done it before and succeeded so he should do better. We should've 100% beat Sevilla and won the EL, our squad was far better, but as always we lost when we really should've won. Our loss to Ajax made him quit, but Ajax were phenomenal that season so I'm not hating him out of frustration.

I was glad to have him back for maybe two seasons, but not this one, and don't want him here next year. He does not have a solution for us, despite all this time and a bunch of questionable decisions on transfers and tactics. The longer he stays here, the more accustomed we become to settling for this mediocrity. We can't compete against teams that we should be competing against. The Serie A title seems to be changing hands a lot, so that tells me that there is no single dominant team so we can get back into the race, but it won't be with Allegri.
 
Jun 27, 2011
819
Further to what @s4tch said, old Allegri made a very versatile team that didn't need to play at 100% to win in Italy, but at the same time could switch it up and go toe-to-toe with the best teams in Europe like Barcelona, Madrid, and Bayern...
These are two very different times and realities you're talking about. This version of Allegri has to almost build a team from scratch. While last time, he was able to choose from world class players in almost every position. One can only be as versatile as the team allows.
 

Lion

King of Tuz
Jan 24, 2007
31,780
forget the defeatist attitude for a second. forget team building for a second. forget pussy mentality for a second

WHY THE HELL CAN'T THE ATTACKING PLAYERS PLAY 90 MINS?

why they get tired so fast? why is 19 year old yildiz out of energy at 50th min when 19 year old pogba could play 120+ mins of play time?

why players constantly injured when they only play once a week and sometimes even less when international matches happen?

imagine if there was european football this season because no way team would be in top 6 with all the players being out of energy or injured.
 

magician

Junior Member
Oct 22, 2022
159
Further to what @s4tch said, old Allegri made a very versatile team that didn't need to play at 100% to win in Italy, but at the same time could switch it up and go toe-to-toe with the best teams in Europe like Barcelona, Madrid, and Bayern. I remember going to Madrid where we came back from the first leg loss to lose to a dodgy penalty. We would morph into different formations to close games out and we played some great games the last time out.

This version of Allegri is something different. He has a defeatist attitude, he's frightened to experiment, he has no faith in the attackers, and despite being a monumentally successful manager, couldn't muster up anything against our biggest rivals in one of those games that could've swung the title in our favour. Its not like he's new to any of it, he's done it before and succeeded so he should do better. We should've 100% beat Sevilla and won the EL, our squad was far better, but as always we lost when we really should've won. Our loss to Ajax made him quit, but Ajax were phenomenal that season so I'm not hating him out of frustration.

I was glad to have him back for maybe two seasons, but not this one, and don't want him here next year. He does not have a solution for us, despite all this time and a bunch of questionable decisions on transfers and tactics. The longer he stays here, the more accustomed we become to settling for this mediocrity. We can't compete against teams that we should be competing against. The Serie A title seems to be changing hands a lot, so that tells me that there is no single dominant team so we can get back into the race, but it won't be with Allegri.
So then it can be said that he has always had an underdog mentality and cannot handle the need to transform into being an alpha.

Everything went down after he got Ronaldo at his disposal and was expected to turn the team into an actual dominating top dog team.

That's the moment when he started saying fans should go to the circus if they wanted entertainment instead of getting it from his (at that time) still near the strongest team in the continent...

When he made Milan beat Barca, when he took us to the finals, all of them were when he and his team were underdogs...

But now, that underdog mentality has slipped down into a total defeatist and provincial team mentality...
 
Aug 2, 2005
3,964
Most money spent over the course of a managerial career:

Guardiola: €2.04 Billion
Mourinho: €1.86 Billion
Ancelotti: €1.69 Billion
Allegri: €1.4 Billion
Simeone: €1.21 Billion
Pellegrini: €1.2 Billion
Tuchel: €1.19 Billion
Conte: €1.17 Billion
Pochettino: €1.15 Billion
Klopp: €1.13 Billion

[Transfer News Live]


Is it correct?

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Aug 2, 2005
3,964
With whatever his strengths are/were

I personally never liked him.... for a very simple reason.. it was always clear we were never winning in Europe with him..
It was always the deatils in the games.. In all examples below, I (normal guy who barely knew tactics) had noticed these details during the game itself..
Be patient on this.. and I will select pieces of the games..

2015 final: we started dominating barca in the second half, and someone who can read the game would have taken pirlo off or increased the legs in mid..
At that moment in the game, barca was only going to get back in it with a counter, and that was exactly what happened, and for this particular point, unprotected Pirlo was a liability..

2016 Bayern return game: @2-0 leading the game.. taking off Morata, who was occupying 2-3 of Bayern players and also taking off Cuad.. simply inviting Bayern to go all in unthreatened at the back with a counter..
We still talk about Evra not shooting the last ball away..
This is a specific detail that is a result of inviting Bayern all in.

2017 final: so many things went wrong at that game, and Real was more hungry to win the game.. it was like reaching that final should have never happened.
Anyway.. seeing real pressure from the start of the second half (actually since the first half after Mandzu equalizer)
And choosing not make any subs only to soak pressure..

2018: 0-3 losing in Turin.. when a whole team is so bad, it is the coach mistake..
Anyway, the piece is actually in the return game..
Zidane pulled out Casimero and Bale at the start of the second half, and we scored a 3rd, literally real were clueless..
I'm not going to talk about tracking back and defending the 3-0.. and not go for a 4th.. cause we were pretty good in nullifing real.
The deatail here
Allegri wanted to go for the extra time.... 1 min left to the game.. before the play that led to the penality, there was a throw-in..
Me at home saying, "Make a sub now, make a sub now. " to ensure the game goes to extra time..
Cuad for Douglas Costa..

2019 Ajax
Even if Ajax were a very energetic team.. those are games that we should have used experience over that of Ajax.. same argument that we are using now about Inter.

In a nutshell, it was always those details that made me never grow any feelings for him and never consider him a top coach, Cause I always somehow knew the path he would follow always going to be the one that is "not enuring winning in Europe"

Whatever happened in Serie A shall never be used for "top coach" discussions.

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juve123

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
15,293
Most money spent over the course of a managerial career:

Guardiola: €2.04 Billion
Mourinho: €1.86 Billion
Ancelotti: €1.69 Billion
Allegri: €1.4 Billion
Simeone: €1.21 Billion
Pellegrini: €1.2 Billion
Tuchel: €1.19 Billion
Conte: €1.17 Billion
Pochettino: €1.15 Billion
Klopp: €1.13 Billion

[Transfer News Live]


Is it correct?

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Most likely though they have accounted for only players purchased not players sold.
 

Vlad

In Allegri We Trust
May 23, 2011
22,596
With whatever his strengths are/were

I personally never liked him.... for a very simple reason.. it was always clear we were never winning in Europe with him..
It was always the deatils in the games.. In all examples below, I (normal guy who barely knew tactics) had noticed these details during the game itself..
Be patient on this.. and I will select pieces of the games..

2015 final: we started dominating barca in the second half, and someone who can read the game would have taken pirlo off or increased the legs in mid..
At that moment in the game, barca was only going to get back in it with a counter, and that was exactly what happened, and for this particular point, unprotected Pirlo was a liability..

2016 Bayern return game: @2-0 leading the game.. taking off Morata, who was occupying 2-3 of Bayern players and also taking off Cuad.. simply inviting Bayern to go all in unthreatened at the back with a counter..
We still talk about Evra not shooting the last ball away..
This is a specific detail that is a result of inviting Bayern all in.

2017 final: so many things went wrong at that game, and Real was more hungry to win the game.. it was like reaching that final should have never happened.
Anyway.. seeing real pressure from the start of the second half (actually since the first half after Mandzu equalizer)
And choosing not make any subs only to soak pressure..

2018: 0-3 losing in Turin.. when a whole team is so bad, it is the coach mistake..
Anyway, the piece is actually in the return game..
Zidane pulled out Casimero and Bale at the start of the second half, and we scored a 3rd, literally real were clueless..
I'm not going to talk about tracking back and defending the 3-0.. and not go for a 4th.. cause we were pretty good in nullifing real.
The deatail here
Allegri wanted to go for the extra time.... 1 min left to the game.. before the play that led to the penality, there was a throw-in..
Me at home saying, "Make a sub now, make a sub now. " to ensure the game goes to extra time..
Cuad for Douglas Costa..

2019 Ajax
Even if Ajax were a very energetic team.. those are games that we should have used experience over that of Ajax.. same argument that we are using now about Inter.

In a nutshell, it was always those details that made me never grow any feelings for him and never consider him a top coach, Cause I always somehow knew the path he would follow always going to be the one that is "not enuring winning in Europe"

Whatever happened in Serie A shall never be used for "top coach" discussions.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk
History revisionists :touched:

- - - Updated - - -

there was nothing wrong with their attitude

the better team won at the end, and at least they tried to win. losing like a pussy and losing like a man sends a different message
I disagree about the way we played, particularly in the 2nd half. We tried to push forward, attacked in numbers but missed that cutting edge. Inter on the other hand could have scored several more on counters as a result. There is a big gap in quality between the sides atm. As for Roma vs Inter, Roma played at home and lost 4-2. We drew 1-1 at home few months ago. Was their approach better? Result suggests otherwise. Talent beats grit 90% of the times unless the other side takes a day off.
 
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Vlad

In Allegri We Trust
May 23, 2011
22,596
Off course it had to be the allegrist of the forum LOL..

Man chances of winning in europe is so limited to coaching the best team without anyone close.
Similar to what we used to be in Serie A in his first stint..

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We lost finals against the best teams of the decade, teams that had 2 of the best players in the world in their prime, that had almost no weaknesses in their squads. Real won 3 CLs in a row ffs.
 

juve123

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
15,293
History revisionists :touched:

- - - Updated - - -


I disagree about the way we played, particularly in the 2nd half. We tried to push forward, attacked in numbers but missed that cutting edge. Inter on the other hand could have scored several more on counters as a result. There is a big gap in quality between the sides atm. As for Roma vs Inter, Roma played at home and lost 4-2. We drew 1-1 at home few months ago. Was their approach better? Result suggests otherwise. Talent beats grit 90% of the times unless the other side takes a day off.
Also the terrible first touch by Vlahovic on mckennie could have been a different story had we scored but difference in the quality of their squad and ours was evident.
 
Aug 2, 2005
3,964
We lost finals against the best teams of the decade, teams that had 2 of the best players in the world in their prime, that had almost no weaknesses in their squads. Real won 3 CLs in a row ffs.
Of course.. They were the favorties.. on top of the list as the best teams in the last 50 or so years with barca 2010 and Bayern 2013

Still, we went out to Ajax, Vilarreal, and fumbled a lead of 2-0 vs. Bayern and disappeared after dominating real with 3-0.

I am simply saying those details will always happen with him.
This is why I believe he won't win in europe unless there is no chance anyone else is close.
 

Vlad

In Allegri We Trust
May 23, 2011
22,596
Also the terrible first touch by Vlahovic on mckennie could have been a different story had we scored but difference in the quality of their squad and ours was evident.
Yeah, in the 1st half when we actually let Inter have the initiative, we could have scored on counters but failed, like in Vlahovic's case with a poor 1st touch. Once we took the initiative and pushed forward, we started looking vulnerable at the back.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course.. They were the favorties.. on top of the list as the best teams in the last 50 or so years with barca 2010 and Bayern 2013

Still, we went out to Ajax, Vilarreal, and fumbled a lead of 2-0 vs. Bayern and disappeared after dominating real with 3-0.

I am simply saying those details will always happen with him.
This is why I believe he won't win in europe unless there is no chance anyone else is close.
You are reaching here. Details? Sure, we had perfectly legit goal disallowed against Bayern, conceded dubious penalty at the last minute against Real in the 2nd leg. Dybala's brainfart in the 1st leg and a red card that decided the outcome. Chiellini and Buffon fucking up in front of our goal... Coach has no influnce on this. On the other had, he can be blamed for Villareal and to less extent Ajax losses.

To win in Europe a lot of things need to fall in place. To have a strong team, good draw and some luck so those details would be in our favor.
 
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