Lionel Messi (4 Viewers)

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
He was a professional tennis player whose highest ranking was 1040 and was always eliminated in the first round. He barely made any money from that.

After his tennis career, he became the president of the Qatar Tennis federation in late 2008 and then all of a sudden became a chairman of Qatar Sports Investment and president and CEO of PSG in 2011.

You don't navigate Qatari politics/business like that without getting dirty. His estimated net worth is around $8bn. All of that is blood money.
I did not mean that he got rich as a professional tennis player. But he made it as a professional tennis player at a time when there were barely tennis courts in his country. He got to the position he is in right now, not through some connections or bloodline he was born with.

Listen, I'm not defending Qatari royalty or any kind of Middle Eastern ruling families or politicians. They are the reason I moved to Europe. But to try and pretend this guy is some uncivilized barbarian is just not true.

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Is he going to forgo that lump sum out of love for the club?

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No why should he?

Whats with all this commie logic. Where we expect elite sportsmen who got to where they are with hard work, talent, extreme focus and a relentless pursuit of excellence. Ultimately getting hundreds of millions of people who pay money to watch them. Then we expect them to just let go of the money they earned? For who? so it goes to some rich, poorly managed football club? Its not like those millions were going to feed hungry kids in Africa.
 

Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,862
No, you're just a naive human being. I'll just leave it at that.
No, I'm a realistic human being who sees the difference between the two sets of countries. Fine, don't call it democratic, whatever the fuck it is - they live better.

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They say five minutes discussion with an average citizen is enough to be against democracy.
Hey man, if some fuck comes into power and then leaves the said power peacefully, it's already a big step away from barbarism.
 

pavelnel

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2006
2,474
I did not mean that he got rich as a professional tennis player. But he made it as a professional tennis player at a time when there were barely tennis courts in his country. He got to the position he is in right now, not through some connections or bloodline he was born with.

Listen, I'm not defending Qatari royalty or any kind of Middle Eastern ruling families or politicians. They are the reason I moved to Europe. But to try and pretend this guy is some uncivilized barbarian is just not true.

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No why should he?

Whats with all this commie logic. Where we expect elite sportsmen who got to where they are with hard work, talent, extreme focus and a relentless pursuit of excellence. Ultimately getting hundreds of millions of people who pay money to watch them. Then we expect them to just let go of the money they earned? For who? so it goes to some rich, poorly managed football club? Its not like those millions were going to feed hungry kids in Africa.
Messi is partially at fault for the huge mess the club is in.
He is almost a billionaire and in reality he does not need the money. Why shouldn't he help the institution he has so often professed of loving?
And if you think anyone deserves such kind of money you are delusional. There is no human being who is worthy of becoming a billionaire, let alone a football player. As if Messi singlehandedly won all these trophies. LMAO.
He was just a part of an organisation - indeed the most important one - but on his own alone he would have won shit.

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Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
Messi is partially at fault for the huge mess the club is in.
He is almost a billionaire and in reality he does not need the money. Why shouldn't he help the institution he has so often professed of loving?
And if you think anyone deserves such kind of money you are delusional. There is no human being who is worthy of becoming a billionaire, let alone a football player. As if Messi singlehandedly won all these trophies. LMAO.
He was just a part of an organisation - indeed the most important one - but on his own alone he would have won shit.

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Thats your opinion. Whose to say how much an individual should or should not earn. Also, you make it seem like he had a gun to Barcelona's head and made them pay that much. It's a free market, Barcelona paid what they thought he was worth to them. If they didn't, he probably could have went somewhere else. Now is he objectively worth that money? That's really complicated to quantify. Whatever profession you are, whether you're a CEO of a fortune 100 company, a top level athlete in a team sport, or whatever. So the next best thing we have is to allow the two parties to negotiate what they mutually believe is the individual's worth. I'd love to hear your alternative

In reality, he does not need that money?? what is that supposed to mean? That's a completely unrealistic expectation. When have you ever heard of someone who is at the top level of their profession deliberately decide to earn less than what they can. You wouldn't, I wouldn't, and neither would the vast majority of people.
 

Bianconero81

Ageing Veteran
Jan 26, 2009
39,371
No, I'm a realistic human being who sees the difference between the two sets of countries. Fine, don't call it democratic, whatever the fuck it is - they live better.

Hey man, if some fuck comes into power and then leaves the said power peacefully, it's already a big step away from barbarism.
I agree with that sentiment. They live better, but it still isn't a true form of democracy.

Some countries are deprived of basic human rights - that's not government or rule: that's beyond savagery and barbarism.
 

IliveForJuve

Burn this club
Jan 17, 2011
18,417
I did not mean that he got rich as a professional tennis player. But he made it as a professional tennis player at a time when there were barely tennis courts in his country. He got to the position he is in right now, not through some connections or bloodline he was born with.

Listen, I'm not defending Qatari royalty or any kind of Middle Eastern ruling families or politicians. They are the reason I moved to Europe. But to try and pretend this guy is some uncivilized barbarian is just not true.

- - - Updated - - -


No why should he?

Whats with all this commie logic. Where we expect elite sportsmen who got to where they are with hard work, talent, extreme focus and a relentless pursuit of excellence. Ultimately getting hundreds of millions of people who pay money to watch them. Then we expect them to just let go of the money they earned? For who? so it goes to some rich, poorly managed football club? Its not like those millions were going to feed hungry kids in Africa.
I'm not disagreeing with you :*

I don't think he's a barbarian. But he got where he his through connections probably built as a result of his tennis career. Of course I see merit in that.

Just wanted to note that he's a billionaire with dirty royal money.
 

pavelnel

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2006
2,474
Thats your opinion. Whose to say how much an individual should or should not earn. Also, you make it seem like he had a gun to Barcelona's head and made them pay that much. It's a free market, Barcelona paid what they thought he was worth to them. If they didn't, he probably could have went somewhere else. Now is he objectively worth that money? That's really complicated to quantify. Whatever profession you are, whether you're a CEO of a fortune 100 company, a top level athlete in a team sport, or whatever. So the next best thing we have is to allow the two parties to negotiate what they mutually believe is the individual's worth. I'd love to hear your alternative

In reality, he does not need that money?? what is that supposed to mean? That's a completely unrealistic expectation. When have you ever heard of someone who is at the top level of their profession deliberately decide to earn less than what they can. You wouldn't, I wouldn't, and neither would the vast majority of people.
Is he really at the top of his profession, though? Let's speak objectively, what has he won in Europe since 2015? Has the mighty midget scored many important goals in CL's elimination phase since then? Not really.
He has been overpaid as most CEOs ever and is leaving a failing organisation with a "Golden parachute".

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Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
I'm not disagreeing with you :*

I don't think he's a barbarian. But he got where he his through connections probably built as a result of his tennis career. Of course I see merit in that.

Just wanted to note that he's a billionaire with dirty royal money.
Fair enough.

Is he really at the top of his profession, though? Let's speak objectively, what has he won in Europe since 2015? Has the mighty midget scored many important goals in CL's elimination phase since then? Not really.
He has been overpaid as most CEOs ever and is leaving a failing organisation with a "Golden parachute".

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You were just saying its a team sport and he would have won nothing without his team. So how do you blame him individually for his team not winning major trophies since 2015. Its on or the other.

But are you really arguing that Messi has not been "one" of the best players in the world since 2015? Come on man.
 

pavelnel

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2006
2,474
Fair enough.



You were just saying its a team sport and he would have won nothing without his team. So how do you blame him individually for his team not winning major trophies since 2015. Its on or the other.

But are you really arguing that Messi has not been "one" of the best players in the world since 2015? Come on man.
Wasn't Messi the all conquering loner who would win everything all by himself and is worth every single penny?
Even judging him individually, since 2015 he has underperformed most seasons, especially the last two and particularly in CL . Ironically, these were the seasons when he got the largest sum of green.


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Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
Wasn't Messi the all conquering loner who would win everything all by himself and is worth every single penny?
Even judging him individually, since 2015 he has underperformed most seasons, especially the last two and particularly in CL . Ironically, these were the seasons when he got the largest sum of green.


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I never said he was a loner. I specifically said, quantifying the individual influence of a player in a team sports is always going to be difficult. Obviously Messi would not have any titles at all if he was playing for Getafe instead of Barcelona. I think you are oversimplifying this whole debate about how much Messi or any other player is worth. If i asked you and 10 other football fans, I'd get 10 different figures. The point is, its meaningless for us to say he's worth this salary or that.

As for him underperforming since 2015. Underperforming how? Individually other than Ronaldo nobody even comes close to Messi's level of output. Unless you compare his level to himself or to Ronaldo's, I do not see any way how you can make an argument that Messi's individual contribution to his team has been below par.
 
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pavelnel

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2006
2,474
I never said he was a loner. I specifically said, quantifying the individual influence of a player in a team sports is always going to be difficult. Obviously Messi would not have any titles at all if he was playing for Getafe instead of Barcelona. I think you are oversimplifying this whole debate about how much Messi or any other player is worth. If i asked you and 10 other football fans, I'd get 10 different figures. The point is, its meaningless for us to say he's worth this salary or that.

As for him underperforming since 2015. Underperforming how? Individually other than Ronaldo nobody even comes close to Messi's level of output. Unless you compare his level to himself or to Ronaldo's, I do not see any way how you can make an argument that Messi's individual contribution to his team has been below par.
Lewandowski has outperformed both of them since 2015.
I would say Haaland was better too last year.

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Xperd

'Toli Throater
Jun 1, 2012
32,594
I'm not disagreeing with you :*

I don't think he's a barbarian. But he got where he his through connections probably built as a result of his tennis career. Of course I see merit in that.

Just wanted to note that he's a billionaire with dirty royal money.
Well he's also the ECA chairman now. Keeps PSG protected from any FFP threats.
 

Arcticdaly

Senior Member
Oct 3, 2018
4,075
Lewandowski has outperformed both of them since 2015.
I would say Haaland was better too last year.

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Ronaldo 15/16= 48 games, 51 goals, 15 assists, and 16 goals and 4 asists where in the CL which is is ridiclous in it self.

Messi 15/16= 49 games, 41 goals, 24 assists

Lewadowski 15/16= 51 games, 42 goals, 6 assits

See i dont know what planet Lewa outpeformed Messi and Ronaldo then and i keep in mind bundeliga is 4th tier league just ahead of french league which is the worst.

Only lewa scored more league goals than Ronaldo last year who had one of the best min per goals in the league with less games than most of those attackers aswell.
 

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